Digitizing Water with Samuel Ian Rosen
Samuel Ian Rosen, the founder and CEO of Tap, and Ravi Kurani discuss Samuel's vision for creating transformational change in the water industry by building a digital network to address challenges in the water sector. Samuel shared how Tap began as a software company to revolutionize the water ecosystem. Delving into the concept of clean water not being free, Samuel suggested that the impending societal shift around climate change could stimulate the creation of Google-scale companies in this area. He also discussed his belief in destiny and its influence on his work, shared his perspective on water as a matter of international security, and highlighted the critical role of clean water accessibility in combating global inequities.
- đ§ Samuel Ian Rosen discussed his vision for Tap, a company aimed at creating a digital network to address the challenges in the water industry. He emphasized the potential of such networks in transforming how water is managed and accessed globally.
- đ Samuel shared his hypothesis that the impending societal shift around climate change could stimulate the creation of Google-scale companies in the water sector. He sees this as crucial in addressing the world's water crisis.
- đ Discussing his personal beliefs, Samuel revealed his faith in destiny and its influence on his work. He also drew a profound connection between water, peace, and societal development, highlighting his belief in water as a vehicle for peace.
- đ° Highlighting the importance of clean water accessibility, Samuel underscored its critical role in combating global inequities. He believes innovative solutions like Tap can contribute to a more equitable distribution of clean water resources.
Meet Samuel
Samuel's journey was influenced by his belief in a higher power, which shaped his approach to work and life. He's dedicated to addressing global water challenges and believes that the impending societal shift around climate change could stimulate the creation of transformative solutions in the water sector. Beyond his work, Samuel is a voracious reader with an interest in questioning biases, principles, and paradigms. He also has a deep connection with his Jewish heritage, which guides his life philosophy and influences his vision for global harmony and peace.
The book, movie, or show
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Transcript
00:00
Samuel Ian Rosen
So, whereas oil has been the thing that has created so much destruction in the world, is it water that brings peace? And that is ultimately what I, as a Jewish person, hope for, is the Messiah to bring peace in the world, to live in harmony. And I have a hypothesis that water is the vehicle for that.
00:22
Ravi Kurani
That's so profound. Just hearing you say that and stitching all that together really does gives you a ton of purpose. Right? As like you said earlier, being at the right place at the right time, coming from the Jewish faith with the fact that water is so sacred, and then tying on that kind of cherry on top of, okay, oil is great, but water is going to bring peace, right? I think those are just really strong and profound words, honestly. All right, everyone, welcome to another episode of Liquid Assets, the Business of Water, where we talk about policy, governments, organizations, and technology and all how they look at the world of water. Today we have Samuel.
01:02
Samuel Ian Rosen
Hi, I'm Samuel Ian Rosen, the founder and CEO at Tap, a digital water company. Tap creates software for water hardware, devices, water service providers, and connects them with consumers consuming water around the world.
01:18
Ravi Kurani
So, Samuel, without further ado, I'm going to go ahead and hand you the mic. One thing that were talking about before was the kind of title of your Ted Talk is Clean Water Is Not Free. And you have talked about how to build Google level companies utilizing this kind of societal shift that we're going to be having in the next ten years around climate change. Let's just kick off with that. I think that's, like, such a deep and interesting topic to start talking about. How do we create these Google level companies and what's going to be the societal shift that we see?
01:46
Samuel Ian Rosen
There's an investor in the water tech space, and he once wrote on LinkedIn that there has been no Google level company in water. And that's obvious because it's so local, right? Billions of people utilize Google, billions of people utilize Facebook, but billions of people don't utilize the same water utility. And I would say that the majority of the innovation that's happened in our lifetimes have been from the big technology companies amazon, Facebook, Uber, Snapchat, et cetera. So how does something that is so local like water get impacted on a global scale? I believe that's through creating a digital water network. And a digital network has network effects that make it, one, defensible. Two, it creates a flywheel of growth, and three, this is this remarkable transformation that, frankly, delivers so much value for investors, because the majority of innovation in the tech world has been from just a handful of, frankly, network effect businesses.
03:07
Samuel Ian Rosen
That is the type of company that the venture capital industry is looking for. And when we think about the underinvestment in water, how much would it actually cost to fix a Flint, Michigan? Far less than the money that gets invested in startup companies in the billions and billions of dollars every year. How do we drive that capital towards fixing our water systems? By creating a transformational company in water that has the opportunity and the ability to scale to over a billion users.
03:41
Ravi Kurani
That's such a strong and interesting way to look at it. Right. The question then becomes, like you said, there's this distinction between local in terms of water and as we are using it today, versus this magnitude flywheel effect of a company like Google or Uber, where you have this ability of taking one product that's worked by one engineer. I know there's thousands of engineers, but there's this one to one relationship, right? Whereas in water, you have all these utilities. The stack is very different. When you kind of nudge towards this digital water network, what does that mean? How do you make that transformational change from what is local to what would then be a one Google product that can be used for water? How does that look like? What exactly is that?
04:27
Samuel Ian Rosen
I'll give an example from the founding story of the company. So I went through an airport with my reusable water bottle. I filled up at a station that needed a filter to be changed, and the water didn't taste good. As a result, I opened my phone to Google Maps to review the station, a One Star, just like we would on Uber or DoorDash, et cetera. And I noticed there were no water stations on Google Maps, nor were they on Apple Maps. And I realized, if the two of the biggest tech companies in the world don't have this information, something from the software side is broken in water. So I created Tap as a pure software company to start building software for the water ecosystem, but really from the perspective of creating a digital network. So the first problem to solve is, okay, how do I get a water fountain on a native Maps application?
05:32
Samuel Ian Rosen
Create an app, go up to a station, push a button that takes a picture, record a GPS location, add some features. Is it a bottle refill, drinking fountain? Add a star review, et cetera. Hit submit upload that to a server or database, and then create this consumer facing app. And also utilize public sources, which we give attribution to. OpenStreetMaps had a lot of stations that people there had already started to crowdsource as well, right? This combination of Tap users, the OpenStreetMaps, in a way, it became like a ways for water crowdsourcing. This data about three years ago, and this is all public now, apple reached out to Tap and said, hey, we'd like to get your water data into our maps, because not only did they not have GPS or Photos or reviews, they didn't have any of that. It took about a year and a half for the partnership to be completed.
06:34
Samuel Ian Rosen
But then when that occurred, Tap is now providing the data for those three attributes into points of interest for water on Apple Maps. And Apple has over 1 billion devices that are active. That all it takes is any person to say, hey, siri, where is the nearest drinking fountain? And the search result that is shown is powered by Tap's database, where a user on Apple's native apps can then click an attribute link back to the Tap website or iOS app if they have it installed, and review that station. Just like I had that challenge of saying, I want to review this station so that the venue owner can then fix it. That's where we take a local problem, the pothole paradox. Just one person reporting a broken pothole on their street, or one person reporting, in this case, a drinking fountain having a filter that needs to be changed and can make that as part of a network, just like Waze.
07:45
Samuel Ian Rosen
The more users that are on Waze reporting driving conditions, the better it gets. The same here. Now, that's just one software product as an example of the types of products that we create and how they are seamless in their interoperability, which is a second condition here. So in water, many things are siloed, but Tap's goal is to make them interoperable. And we're starting with the digital ecosystem.
08:20
Ravi Kurani
That's super inspiring. I love that founding story of you opening up Google Maps at that airport and then building this entire platform that now is hosted on Apple. That's amazing. Samuel, kudos to you. When you do talk about interoperability and this product, one completely makes sense, right? A more localized version of the actual application that people can use to see drinking water in and around them. What does the other kind of products that Tap is working on, how does that interoperability actually run through.
08:56
Samuel Ian Rosen
On the water station side? If you own that station and someone submits that repair report, how do they get notified? So today, for example I think it was yesterday pardon, someone went through the airport at JFK, reported a station was broken. When they reported it was broken, Tap has an alert on Twitter. We at Tweet JFK that there's a here is the specific terminal. Here's the problem. Here's a link to the URL of the specific web page, and they respond back on Twitter. Thank you for your report. We'll have someone from operations look at yeah, the patron. All they did was either on their app or a QR sticker that gets affixed to the station itself, which then deep links into the direct web page of that station. All that person did was just like I tried to do, to rate it a one star.
09:57
Samuel Ian Rosen
They just submitted a review of what the concern was, and now they got an instant response from JFK without having to go to their website or submit a complaint or anything like that. Yeah, that's just one. Yeah, another one is the developer ecosystem. Right. So I had mentioned that we do that with Apple, don't you think? I agree. Or I would think that when someone goes to Flint, Michigan, they would benefit knowing that the Holiday Inn there has a flow water machine that removes lead in the downstairs lobby. They have just no idea. I saw another story about someone at Airbnb leaving the water running. So Tap will make software for every water dispensing hardware device. We started with drinking fountains because it's the lowest hanging fruit and the tragedy of the commons that people care the least about. But we will make software for toilets, sinks, showers, fire hydrants, et cetera, pools.
11:09
Samuel Ian Rosen
And we make software and we partner with hardware companies like Sutro or like Refill Station or Reusable bottle manufacturers to say, hey, we are creating innovative software that puts you into this digital network and utilizing that network theory, the more nodes that attach to that network, the more everyone benefits. Yeah, that's how we can make that global impact entirely.
11:38
Ravi Kurani
And that's such an interesting way to scale by using the tragedy of the common. Go to a spot that people you have this free writer problem with the drinking fountains and people that they're using and people don't care about them. Right. That drinking fountain was broken. You don't know if there's lead in the water at that Holiday Inn in Flint. When you start actually putting this stuff on toilets, in partnering with swimming pool companies like Sutro or agricultural companies that are using water for their farmland, the users of the data become very different because right now, your product entirely is for B to C. Basically, it's a bunch of consumers that are drinking water at fountains. How does that change? Or is there any change in that data stream or even the user of the product when you get into other streams of water?
12:25
Samuel Ian Rosen
Tap sells B to C. Actually. So we make software for OEMs right now that have customers. That's where, yes, we do have an interface with the customer, but our customer is the OEM. That's who I just was on the phone with earlier today. And we're doing a pilot with them. That's who I'm focused on. If there is any consumer, push it's to build brand and get people excited about it and familiar with it. But really, my customer is the businesses. Now, the second thing is, you mentioned the tragedy of the commons. If I can solve the tragedy of the commons, where literally it's zero meaning for you to go up to a drinking fountain at the airport, it's zero. There's no cost. So if I can solve that problem, I have a negative cost of acquiring a customer. Meaning if I can get that OEM to install my QR code or NFC tag in their station or on their station, and a thousand people go up to that station a day.
13:27
Samuel Ian Rosen
That's a thousand people that saw my brand that I did not pay Facebook or Google or Twitter an advertisement for. And if just one interacts or a thousand, whatever that number is, it's more and more people who are familiar with this brand, and maybe they click through and then all of a sudden they say, oh wow, they also sell pool accessories, and I can create a smart pool just like I have a smart home for electricity. I didn't know about that partnership that they have with Sutro. I had not even heard of Sutro. But that's the hardware partner for Tap for pools. Awesome. So what happens is the value proposition to the businesses, because I believe capitalism actually just drives innovation and change the value proposition. It's a lower cost of acquiring customers, a lower cost of brand building for the hardware partners who in today's world of Facebook and TikTok and all this expensive marketing, cost of acquiring the customer is the most challenging thing in a world of where attention is basically the commodity that everyone's trying to capture.
14:35
Ravi Kurani
Yeah, entirely in this attention economy world, right. Where like you said, we're flipping through TikTok videos that are 20 seconds, 30 seconds. You're right. When you first start building brand, your most expensive CAC dollars or customer acquisition cost dollars are usually negative in terms of your profitability when you're first acquiring those customers to build that flywheel. Right. That's the typical Uber problem. That's the Google, any of these tech startups, if you look at them in the first ten years, their customer acquisition cost was exorbitantly high in the first few initial stages. But your cost is zero if not negative. Because you're right, I'm not paying to come to that drinking fountain. I'm already going to get free advertising from seeing Tap on there.
15:17
Samuel Ian Rosen
You are an attentive consumer. For the ten to 15 seconds that you stand in front of that station, you might see that sticker that says something wrong with this station, or give feedback about this station scan here. You scan that code, and because the OEM paid Tap to have that code printed, that's our business model. We sell them software, and we sell them software as a service. I just got paid for you, the B to C customer. I just got paid for that. And if you enter your email address, because we run a weekly sweepstakes, we give away prizes like the Smart bottle band, which is an NFC enabled band that wraps around your Smart bottle, connects to the Tap app or a $50 Amazon gift card. This is very much inspired by Gas Buddy, which gives you an incentive. They do $100 a day in Gas card to report prices.
16:13
Samuel Ian Rosen
So we are working on building up towards that as well. So we are literally getting paid and have a negative CAC, which is frankly extremely rare, frankly unheard of in the technology world. And it's the best kind of companies that somehow capture this magic, this zeitgeist that it wouldn't have been possible ten years prior, it won't be possible ten years now. It's like the right place, the right time, the right person. And I do believe in a higher power. I do believe in God. So it's a destiny or it's a calling or it's a channeling of energy, whatever the words people like to say. But I feel very lucky in that way. I'm grateful to be able to be a vessel for this to exist in the world.
17:10
Ravi Kurani
That's super profound. That even, like you said, you have to be at the right place, the right time. The business model 15 years ago, there was no iPhone and there was no 5G. You couldn't take pictures of stuff.
17:20
Samuel Ian Rosen
There are no apps and ravi. When I said what the topic of my Ted Talk would be, the exciting thing for me is what is ahead. I'll give an example. The Stripe traditional credit card rails. The minimum that you can charge on stripe is $0.50. Now, if you go up to a station and you pay $0.50 for a refill, that certainly is less than the $5 bottle of water that they charge at the airport. However, it's, like, pretty different in someone's mind. Wait, I have to pay $0.50. But on that $0.50 microtransaction, stripe charges $0.33. So they take 66% of the transaction, meaning I've got $0.17 left over. Tap would take 20% of it or 30% of it. So we're delivering pennies, a fraction of what that original payment was. However, this is where the Bitcoin Lightning Network or a native token that's built through Web Three can reduce that payment almost to zero.
18:29
Samuel Ian Rosen
And that the world of micro payments that we see possible for, let's say, reading a newspaper or for posting on Twitter, where Elon is now testing a subscription and rewarding the creators. We might be able to then lower the cost of giving that micro payment. So now someone can pay $0.10 for that station. And it's my belief that we will see by the end of this decade, communities not cap making this decision, but communities along the Colorado River, let's say, where the price of water goes up. And those public drinking fountains are now being closed because they're losing so much money. They say, you know what? All we have to do is charge five cents, and we're actually profitable on those drinking fountains. And now they have money to install more drinking fountains because they can actually make money by installing the better product. Tap water over bottled water that creates less waste and less carbon emissions.
19:33
Ravi Kurani
That's so huge. If you could take like you said, I know were talking about this earlier. I'm stitching a few of these things together. Where clean Water is not free is the title of Samuel's Ted Talk. Right? The one that we're exploring over here, you bring in and you lower the cost of acquisition to below zero. Right. It becomes a positive in your business. You use infrastructure such as Web Three and you cut out the quote unquote middleman, which would be somebody like a stripe, a credit card company that's taking those fees. You really do start building this initial foundations of a water OS, right? A water operating system that stitches together all of these users of water and then people can basically build a platform on top. You're building what Stripe did in the other sense for the financial industry, but for water, that is super huge.
20:21
Ravi Kurani
That's cool, man. That's really awesome.
20:22
Samuel Ian Rosen
And I really appreciate how you consolidated and repackaged it in a way that's really easy for people to understand in the vertical SaaS sense. Another example I think, is toast. I don't remember if it's coffee shops or how they square for small businesses, and then vertical from the end consumer drinking it in my home to the agriculture who's utilizing it on a farm, or even the utility that's providing the water to either of those customers.
20:58
Ravi Kurani
Yeah, completely. And that's the way that an operating system works, right? You have the consumer grade operating system and on that product you could have an Apple MacBook computer that has apps programs for B to C. Right. You might use Facebook on there to look at your nieces and your aunts and uncles pictures online. Or you could be a business that uses Microsoft Teams or the Google Worksuite to collaborate with your team and actually do business. Right. So I think the general infrastructure lays across the entire land and people can then basically Tap in or Tap out of it. That's Tap, right.
21:37
Samuel Ian Rosen
And the name of the company intentionally was the double meaning of Tapping your phone. So I do believe that if a community decides to say, hey, it should be five cents to refill, you're going to Tap your smartphone or your Smartwatch or your smart bottle or your smart ring if an aura against that station and have an account balance and people immediately ask, but what about someone who's homeless? My answer there is always, I can't go to your community and take a book out of your library. I don't live there, I need to have a library card. It's the same methodology. Someone will create a Tap water card. We'll create that for them in their community. It's in a certain geographic area. You get so many refills per year, and that's part of either paying taxes in a city or living in a place with a residence or being homeless and getting it, or I should say experiencing homelessness rather, and having to get that from, let's say, a shelter or other types of social services.
22:41
Samuel Ian Rosen
And if you're traveling in another community, yes, if you can afford to travel to New York City, then I think that person has money to be able to pay that town for water. So I think what it really starts to do is solve a lot of these social problems that have existed for so long that, frankly, the nonprofit world, I don't believe the best change is via nonprofits because their business, frankly, is unsustainable. They have to simply keep soliciting dollars every year. That doesn't mean the work that they do is not excellent. They do amazing public awareness campaigns, et cetera. But the actual change will have to be from, in my opinion, like I said, a company that can reach a billion users or more. And in today's world, that's pretty much Coke or Pepsi or Nestle Water or a technology company.
23:36
Ravi Kurani
Yeah, entirely. And I think taking one or two steps back around inequity we had an interesting conversation before on part of clean water is not free. Right. If you look at the space today, like you were saying, of homeless populations or kind of inequitable populations that don't have access to clean water, the current status quo today is you don't have any data on this. Right. If I was to ask a city or county today, how does a homeless population or an inequitable population get their water? There's probably no data. Right. And so part of building this water OS, almost unearths, it creates the data set that now you can then build products on top of to build more equity for people that are homeless or that end up in more inequitable situations. I think that in itself is beautiful because if you fast forward this a few years, you will now have the data set that you can massage that was non existent before this.
24:35
Samuel Ian Rosen
Yeah. And as a technologist, the technologies to piggyback on what you're saying, like end to end encryption that are now, frankly, so much simpler to implement, the same way that there was AWS, and you don't have to rack servers. There's other types of these plugins and all kinds. And the technology is so much further advanced that, like I said, because ultimately someone would be like, I don't want to be tracked when I flush the toilet. It's no, we'll build end to end encryption. Right, just like on your WhatsApp is end to end encrypted that Facebook isn't reading your messages. So that can happen where we can still report statistics anonymously for consumption and ensure privacy at the same time. But a decade ago, that also wasn't so. There's just so many societal factors, from what we talked about with having a camera to the potential for new types of financial rails that are being rebuilt to even the societal change around encryption and consumers really being aware of what that is and demanding it from and really holding companies feet to the fire on things like that.
25:40
Samuel Ian Rosen
Right. So, as a result, that's why I say I feel lucky to be able to work on it at this time, because it's something simply that wasn't possible however many years ago. And won't be possible again in the future. It really feels destiny.
25:56
Ravi Kurani
The time is now. Yeah, exactly. That's awesome. Let's take kind of a step in a different direction. So I love to hear about people's origin stories. Right. I always feel like you got to where you're at with the history that precedes you, right? Where did you grow any? Are there any events in your life leading up to you starting Tap outside of the airport water bottle thing that you just mentioned that kind of led you to where you are today? Right. What does that story look like?
26:25
Samuel Ian Rosen
I grew up in northern New Jersey. My parents were from Brooklyn, New York. And I'm proud that I'm Jewish, which is a minority community. There's only 17 million Jewish people, ethnically in particular. Obviously, it's a religion. But were a dead civilization that stayed alive somehow from thousands of years ago and revitalized a dead language that wasn't spoken for 2000 years. And for me, as you've heard mention twice in this conversation I believe in a higher power or a destiny. I definitely believe in free will. And I believe my actions of trying to improve and better myself elevate my consciousness not in an Adam Newman way, but raise my vibrational frequency of positivity really transformed my life. I experienced some very difficult situations that I had when I was younger and impacted my family a lot. And as a result, I really knew at a young age that I would have to work really hard.
27:41
Samuel Ian Rosen
Which I know sounds cliche, but I remember one time being in college and I wasn't doing well. It was my final year and I wasn't doing well in a particular class and I didn't go to the Fun party event that weekend. I stayed in the library and even though I aced the test, I barely passed the course because I was a student manager for the men's varsity basketball team. I was traveling so much that my grades in that particular class slipped and I made that sacrifice. So for me, it feels like those events of testing me have led me to something like this. And in a bit of the Peter Parker sense with great power comes great responsibility. As someone of the Jewish faith, I do believe water is very sacred in the sense that it was here on day zero when God created the do think.
28:37
Samuel Ian Rosen
I do believe it's going to be extremely important, not just to us as Americans. I wrote a blog post called water is a Matter of International Security. So I say that in terms of democracy. But I do think it is the path to peace in the Middle East, not oil. Which is actually ironic, the difference between water and oil being opposites. So whereas oil has been the thing that has created so much destruction in the world is it water that brings peace? And that is ultimately what I, as a Jewish person hope for is the Messiah, to bring peace in the world, to live in harmony, to rebuild the temple, for all people, to be one again. And I think that I have a hypothesis that water is the vehicle for that.
29:25
Ravi Kurani
That's so profound. And I think just hearing you say that and stitching all that together really does give I'm hearing it gives you a ton of purpose. Right. As like you said earlier, as the vessel of somebody being at the right place at the right time. Coming from the Jewish faith with the fact that water is so sacred and then tying on that kind of cherry on top of, okay, oil is great, but water is going to bring peace, right? I think those are just really strong and profound words, honestly.
29:53
Samuel Ian Rosen
Thank you. Thank you.
29:55
Ravi Kurani
Yeah.
29:57
Samuel Ian Rosen
Cool.
29:57
Ravi Kurani
So we are running a little bit out of time. I want to wrap this up with kind of one final question. What are you reading or watching today that piques your interest? That would be interesting for the audience. It could be anything from Harry Potter to a new Netflix show.
30:13
Samuel Ian Rosen
The Gift 14 Lessons to Save Your Life by Edith Egger. Eger. And on Netflix, we are watching Sins of My Mother or something. Sins of your mother. Sins of my mother. It's a true crime in terms of cults. My girlfriend Laura, we love to watch the cult documentaries. I think it was from 2021.
30:42
Ravi Kurani
Okay, cool. What about you?
30:45
Samuel Ian Rosen
What are you watching?
30:47
Ravi Kurani
My gosh, I was watching this weird thing on Netflix. I think it's called like, ancient civilizations or something like that. Like unearthing the current archaeological first principles that we have. So it's going back to figuring out these really old structures that are around the world. I think it's like an eight part episode. I just randomly turned it one day.
31:10
Samuel Ian Rosen
That humans were an advanced civilization before the Ice Age. I watched it as well. What did you think of the he's not a historian, he's a journalist. But what did you think? Do you think he was credible?
31:22
Ravi Kurani
Honestly, I thought a bit of the production value was a little bit over the top with the music and his narration style, but at 80 20, it satiated the need to watch something in the evening one. But secondarily, it just asked those kind of questions of what did that look like at the kind of beginning of the Ice Age? Because we do have this anthropological data set that I thought that I believed. It asks a question about that. But then if I abstract all that away, it just really brings me back to let's go ahead and question our first principles, that we shouldn't necessarily take things for granted. And that can come from my business of me making this podcast. What are the first principles that I have biases for and towards and against, and let's go ahead and unearth those and just. Question those right and see if I can change the paradigm by just changing those initial parameters that I'm designing this entire thing around.
32:09
Ravi Kurani
And that's more of what it did lend me to raise my eyebrow on.
32:14
Samuel Ian Rosen
Interesting. I appreciate you sharing that.
32:16
Ravi Kurani
And I'm actually reading the Einstein biography by I think that's Walter Isaacson, the guy that wrote The Jobs wrote the.
32:21
Samuel Ian Rosen
Jobs one as well.
32:23
Ravi Kurani
Yeah, that one's really good, actually. It's a pretty long read, but it's really interesting to see how Einstein came up with these theorems and the laws of relativity. It's just yeah, it's really super interesting, which is also giving rise to quantum mechanics today, and quantum computing, which is also another paradigm shift in the way that we process data. So it's been 120 years coming.
32:44
Samuel Ian Rosen
Yeah. And with the protons split, is that the photon not proton, photon split experiment, the wave versus a particle.
32:56
Ravi Kurani
The wave particle function.
32:57
Samuel Ian Rosen
Yeah. Will be interesting.
33:01
Ravi Kurani
Thank you for coming on the pod, Samuel. I'd love to. We should do another recap, like in a year and a half. I think it'd be really cool to see how Tab grows. I'd love to do a check in. Maybe we could I'm thinking about doing this other, smaller piece called The Drip Campaign, which is just smaller follow ups with some of the people that we've interviewed. So, yeah. Thanks again for coming on the pod, and best of luck with Tap.
33:24
Samuel Ian Rosen
Thanks for having me.
33:25
Ravi Kurani
For those of you out there, if you're interested in listening to more Liquid Assets podcasts, you can find us wherever you listen to your podcasts on Spotify, apple podcasts, just search Liquid Assets.